Yup. I want a United Kingdom.. all 91 together. I wouldn't even mind so much if the other 26 counties of the British Isles re-joined.

As for not getting what either of us want... well, at the minute I suppose I kinda already have what I want. I'd like it improved with our own devolved form of local government back though. Your ideal *may* be catered for in the longer term.. eventually - who knows.

But I'd like to ask you a question: Considering your are living in what is currently a part of the UK, are you willing to work in any way to improve that part for as long as it remains within the UK? Can you be proud of being from Northern Ireland specifically? Can you be proud of Northern Irish groups like Ash and Snow Patrol and Stiff Little Fingers etc? Proud of the Northern Ireland football team? Proud of the our environment and the local government departments whose job it is to look after our concerns and our environment? Can you be proud of that and embrace it until such a time as a majority of us vote for a change in our constitution? Perhaps you already are.. I don't really know. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)




I do get you. And I couldn't agree with you more: we are torturing ourselves. Its easy to blame external influences. But, when it comes down to it, its ourselves who have the most profound affect.




I've often thought that, given the right time, and assuming that a referrendum takes place in Northern Ireland that indicates strongly that the majority of us want to part from the UK and form a single-island state with the Republic, that I might embrace it. But its got to be done slowly, if at all. To avoid the violence that might ensue, you've got to address the issues of ALL concerned. I'm no longer quite so rejectionist or paranoid about all-Ireland bodies or legislature. After all, some of those concern the desires of some of my people... the nationalists ones specifically. I don't consider them The Enemy. They're just fellow citizens or whatever, that desire a certain political framework which is different from that which I desire. The enemy is the terrorists, criminals and thugs. The enemy are those within our security forces who have lied and covered up accidents and who have covered up bloody-minded murder and torture.

If there is ever to be a 32-county Ireland.. a united Ireland, then we've got to become far more united WITHIN Northern Ireland first. I believe we are becoming just that.. the more people like you and I reject violence and realise the futility and the Catch-22 of the violence - that violence breeds violence.. the more we become united.. and the less we become paranoid and suspicious of eachother.

I reject utterly the violence and the 'cause' of the Provisional IRA - not simply because I differ in my political outlook and ideals. I reject it and condemn it because I believe in the power of democracy and I believe that time heals IF we continue to live by certain principles. I reject and condemn those loyalist terrorist groups also.. and any militant loyalist or republican stance. Other than that, I believe myself to be open and malleable. My Irish heart lies comfortably with the acceptance of the British peoples - the Scots, the Welsh, the Irish and the English, and even with all those who have come to live in the UK and become British citizens and contribute to our society and our country.

I really feel the need to say what I've done in the past to help conditions in the North, but at the same time, then it feels like I'm bumming myself up. If you think my heart only lies in political factions, or that I've no mind for working with those that I nearly hate just to sort of keep peace, then you'd be wrong. There's no point in me telling you what I've done in the community (and no, it was as far from politically motivated as one can get). I can't ever give up hope in one day having what I want, as well as loads of other people want. I know it doesn't fit in well with what you want or already have to a certain degree, but the fact remains my heart goes only one way where Ireland is concerned, but I would and do make a difference in some ways to help better the quality of life that people have in the north. Perhaps if I knew you a bit better, I'd tell you what I've done and what I do when I'm there, but till I know someone, I don't find it easy to talk about things, especially when I know I'm, well, erm ... not that grand of a person. I'm shite, but least I know who I am and what I'm about and know that anything that's ever happened to me was well deserved for all the stuff I've done at the past. So, to me, talking about things that I do that others would see as good, grand, wonderful etc etc etc ... I see as a form of remuneration, payment for all the ill I've done. It does go beyond that, but it's sort of a personal thing and if I said, then I'd show a weakness that I just couldn't do atm. But one thing is definate ... what I work for is for the people ... but where politics is concerned .. you'll not sway my mind which way I want things to go, but perhaps I've already displayed a bit of compromise in here as in how to go about things till, perhaps, one day, I'll live to see what it is that I've, quite literally, dreamt about.

WeeIrishDevil, that is a compassionate post. I don't feel I need to necessarily know any of the details of which you speak.. I'll take what you have said at face value. I think that we have had some good discussion, and I never expected to sway your mind with regard to your political ideals. By the same token, while I consider myself to be open to all sorts of possibilities, I wouldn't expect you'd be able to sway my mind either.

But that's not the point of our discussions I think. The point is more the fact that we are talking.. reaching out... trying to understand eachother. I have less time for some of the other members of this forum because they seem to revel in the past actions of certain organisations with no thought for the people they consider their Enemy. Some of them have not even lived here, which baffles me.

As for things you may have done in your past - everything is perhaps relative. There are very few people, for example, that I believe deserve to die. Maybe you shouldn't be so hard on yourself. People make mistakes. People can be duped - even intelligent people.

For myself, all I want is a democratic society (the majority of us, for now, seem to want to remain in the UK), that will change, if necessary, by the will of the people - NOT by pressure from ANY terrorist organisation.. and that includes the Loyalist ones as well as the Republican ones. I want the paranoia, suspicion, violence and discrimination to end. I want to continue to make friends with people who may be of one religion or another - but I don't necessarily know what religion that might be. Know what I mean?

Roughly one-in-ten people on the island of Britain are Roman Catholic. But the Protestants and Roman Catholics there don't necessarily know what religion others belong to. That's what I want.

Its so complex and yet so simple. I believe it will take a very long time. I'm not even thinking about what constitutional status Northern Ireland will have by that time - part of the UK or part of a 32-county Republic. But I also believe that it has started, that great strides have been made. And I recognise that some of those strides have been made by Sinn F�in/IRA.

No matter what I've done, or haven't done, I can tell you this much ....

Every action taken and everything I've set out to do was with nothing but the deepest understanding of who those people were. I even have a feeling that you would have felt what I did was justified, as people who know me, even on the other side of the fence, said was justified. The problem doesn't lie in the jusitification of those things, but with the internal struggle that I've oft faced. It matters not what is and isn't justified, if what's in your heart tells you otherwise. Guilt is a powerful thing. I just wish that time did heal all wounds as it says. See, at an earlier post I talked of accidents that have happened ... like bombs that went off at the wrong place or earlier than had intended and the innocents that died because of those mistakes. I can say the same for things in my life also. You set out to do a certain thing and bad things happened to people it was never intended to happen to. So, when you say that maybe I shouldn't be so hard on myself, you've truly no idea how difficult I make things for myself. The standards that I set for myself, no matter how unrealistic, piss me off when I don't meet those standards. When you confront the enemy, or whom you belive to be the enemy, you should take the time to get to know your enemy. Battles, wars, tiffs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) aren't won by lack of understanding ... it is the complete understanding of your enemy that wins wars. I'm not even referring to the troubles, but in all aspects of life that works. Even something as simple as a job. You work at the same place someone else does, and you both want to move upwards ... you get to know the other poeple that would be eligible for the job that you seek and try to find a way to make sure that you're noticed over them. You get to know that person as intimately as possible. You get to know their hopes, dreams, fears, and everything else. That is how you win. It might not be your enemy in the classic sense, but it is your rival for a job. I treat all others, whether friend or foe, with the same respect that I expect to be shown. You have to have respect for your enemies and never underestimate them. In the process of learning about some of your enemies, you oft find that they're not very different than you are and can be quite troubling, and then there's the opposite side of things where you find that they are so very different, which makes actions you take later only seem more justified. Then there's the rare and odd time where getting to know your enemy actually makes you not want any ill for that person and sometimes even end up as mates that can work together for a common cause. Look the Shankill Butchers .... do you honestly think the IRA was solely responsible for his demise? No ... they had help from their very own enemies to get shot of someone like him. There's enemies to each other and then there's enemies that are to all. It all just makes me realise a few things about human nature. We will do what we have to in order to survive ... survival of the fittest kinda thing. If it takes working with your enemies to ensure our people's survival, then I'd be willing. We can keep killing each other, or we can find a way to make things work. I've done things the bad and very hard way for ages, now it's time to listen. Active, not passive listening is the only way both sides can relate and try to learn from each other and see each others point of view. We don't have to agree, we don't have to see eye to eye, but we do always have to respect others views and thoughts. For some those things weren't even theirs, they were put there by their parents and such. Look the weeans today ... they know what they're taught. In our family it was same. The only difference between my family and some of these others is the fact that we were sorta left to our own after they put their ideas in there. It gave me loads of time to see things from many different angles. I've learned loads that way. There is also those that didn't have any guidance where politics was concerned, and that's how I choose to do things with me and mine. With mum n da having passed away ages ago, I've decided not to carry on their traditions in those matters. I let the weeans of today find out for themselves. I don't ever make any comments about political situations and they're considered rather ignorant of most of it, or at least they were. The thing is, they've suffered also, beatings and such .... so they've formed their own opinion. It was the same as with religion ... I let them choose, and thank God they chose the same paths as me in that sense. I don't believe in forcing people to believe what I do, but I do expect that when people do hear what I have to say that they do understand, as best as they can, why I do feel the way I do. That in no way means agree, it just means understanding. You don't have to agree with me, but I'd expect you to at least understand where I'm coming from. I know there's people that won't understand and for that I'm truly sorry for them, as they'll never know what it is to feel anything but hatred for another person. It isn't about hate for me, it's about a cause, a reason. It's about a dream, a hope, a thought, an ideal and the means by which to achieve that dream. I wouldn't ever kill just for hope, as that diminishes it. There is tactics and strategy in warfare. We've done the killing thing, and now some of us are ready to see how long peace will last.

Let me ask you a simple question ...

What happens if someone is constantly accused of something? Look at husbands and wives .... hubby is away most of the day and night and his wife is accusing him of fuckin around. Even if he wasn't with another woman, she's going to think the worst .... what will he eventually do because of those accusations? I'm not going to say every bloke would do something like that, but I'd say the majority of them would do it just because they've been accused of it so much. It gets deep down into their hearts, their minds and their souls ... they would do it because of suggestion, as well as all that seems to happen in the relationship following those accusations and the false belief of those things.

How is this any different with the IRA? I mean if people are going to keep accusing them of not actually having done what they have, and if they truly don't think they've ended their war ... then how will they ever be able to prove it and what is going to happen after so many thoughts, actions, and deeds have been set out against them? We're all human and we all make mistakes, so push and push and then the people might get what they've wanted, which evidentally isn't peace. At some point people are going to have to take people at their word, if not, there's never going to be anything but mistrust and will accomplish nothing but starting the war all over again. If things go back to a more militant compaign kinda thing ... it will be ten times worse than it ever was. It would no longer be for a cause but would be out of spite.

I'm an odd person, with odd ideals and very passionate about my beliefs. I can listen to others and I can compromise, but I can't tolerate either political or religious indifference, ignorance, nor intolerance. I know people want to say all kinds of shite about protestants, and I'm sure there's bad ones out there, but there were loads of them that fought and died for Ireland's freedom. It isnt about God and isn't about church, it's about us, the people. It's about politics, money, power, influence, prestige, status, control .... so many things, but it hasn't been and won't ever really be about God. I used to hate most prods .... I don't anymore, but I've found just as many of them wanting a free Ireland as there are of us catholics that want the same as. I also can't say I hate all unionists, but I will say I do have this ever growing hatred for all loyalists. Politics, a democracy isn't going to work if the majority of the people that are involved are only on one side. I know there's some of our people in there also, but the sad fact of the matter is that it's still the queens democracy. I'm not sure if you get that or not, but it's still not exactly fair atm, but it's getting better (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Now lets just hope that the ignorance of a few people don't destroy what's being built before we have time to build it. I didn't ever do what I did because I enjoyed it, or because I wanted to do it, I did what I did because I felt it was necessary to do what I was doing. What people are doing now isn't necessary and isn't going to accomplish anything. I'll never stop wanting a free Ireland ... I'll never give up on the idea of A Nation Once Again, I'll never give up on those ideals, but if there's a way to acheive it without losing any more people than WE already have, then I'd give it a chance, as I'm doing.
GOTTA GO (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Hello from South New Jersey!